Pregame

[joshschur]

Just wondering what your opinion on Pregame is. Last spring I started viewing their site and was intrigued by Vegas Runner. They kept sending me free discounts and so I kept basically paying $5 for a pick here and there, but the whole operation seems shady to me, especially with the addition of that shady Philly Godfather guy. I have read all over the place that these guys are just as shady as all the other cappers out there (aside from Teddy, who I love), and that they create different accounts to pick different sides and all those all schemes that people like John Harrison use. I do, however, enjoy listening/reading to Chad Millman and I have always found it rather curious when he has had both RJ Bell and Vegas Runner as guests...so I'm wondering, are they legit??

[Beyond the Bets]

I have not been able to independently verify anything here, but you might find this to be of interest, re: Vegas Runner.

[Sandlapper]

As a site they're legit, but their cappers aren't anything special. They're just great marketers. They'll spin the numbers to make their record sound great when it's really not. Vegas Runner is the king of doing that. I used to like their guy Goodfella because he was legit and didn't have Game of the Years, Months, or drop BOMBS. Unfortunately, lately even he has succumbed to this type of marketing.

Save your money, you can pick games just as good as they can.

[Beyond the Bets]

I also haven't independently verified any of these records, either, but believe them to be true. Here is a list of all Pregame handicappers and their records, as tracked by the folks at SBR.

WINNERS
1 Greg Shaker 641-533 54.6% 88.5 $8,854
2 Mike Hook 601-545 52.4% 62.2 $6,215
3 Ben Burns 869-698 55.5% 59.7 $5,969
4 Andre Gomes 989-884 52.8% 30.7 $3,072
5 Dave Essler 386-361 51.7% 28.4 $2,839
6 Spartan 722-660 52.2% 26.2 $2,619
7 Goodfella 366-306 54.5% 12.6 $1,258
8 Dwayne Bryant 263-226 53.8% 7.6 $764
9 Philly Godfather 94-91 50.8% 5.7 $573
10 Sac Lawson 246-228 51.9% 4.9 $488
11 Joe Gavazzi 109-97 52.9% 2.9 $287

LOSERS
12 Dan Bebe 93-87 51.7% (0.8) $(80)
13 Bryan Leonard 36-38 48.6% (8.3) $(830)
14 Tony George 237-224 51.4% (9.7) $(969)
15 Brent Brooks 51-58 46.8% (10.5) $(1,050)
16 Stephen Nover 85-90 48.6% (16.5) $(1,654)
17 Evan Altemus 324-323 50.1% (21.0) $(2,095)
18 Stan Sharpe 201-192 51.1% (35.0) $(3,496)
19 The King Maker 37-52 41.6% (40.3) $(4,030)
20 Cincinnati Kid 28-45 38.4% (45.0) $(4,500)
21 Johnny Detroit 280-290 49.1% (59.1) $(5,909)
22 Rob Crowne 84-99 45.9% (65.1) $(6,510)
23 Gill Alexander 383-398 49.0% (79.2) $(7,920)
24 Vegas Runner 515-500 50.7% (79.9) $(7,990)
25 Larry Del Genio 569-561 50.4% (85.3) $(8,530)
26 Marc Lawrence 284-288 49.7% (87.0) $(8,695)
27 Rocky Atkinson 245-258 48.7% (92.3) $(9,227)
28 Denver Money 173-212 44.9% (98.0) $(9,795)
29 King Creole 193-225 46.2% (109.4) $(10,938)
30 Marco D'Angelo 352-391 47.4% (115.8) $(11,583)
31 Larry Ness 587-564 51.0% (124.7) $(12,472)
32 JR ODonnell 331-372 47.1% (220.8) $(22,079)
33 Nick Parsons 601-618 49.3% (330.9) $(33,088)

Totals 10,374 - 9,934 51.1% (1,405.0) Units $(140,502)

[@World_Wide_Wob]

@RJinVegas is the only one I trust over there.

[joshschur]

Yea that link is what I initially looked at when I had my suspicions about Vegas Runner. And I only paid for picks from them a few times in the spring, when they were giving me $15 or $20 every week, so the max I ever really paid was $5, and that happened only a handful of times. Vegas Runner's NBA GOM and GOW were actually hitting at a great rate, but once NBA season ended I stopped using his picks. Still get emails from them on discounts and whatnot but haven't used any of those discounts in a while. Was thinking of checking out what they have to say about some games over the next month but wanted to get your opinion first.

Thank you for this website by the way, I really enjoy perusing some of these posts, playing in your contests, reading your tweets, but, most importantly, both myself and my wallet have really enjoyed your love for Bill Snyder and Kansas State

[JSpauny]

I really only use pregame for the videos and podcasts. I usually listen to the Guessing the Lines show to see how different the actual lines are. I watch the videos just to get a better feel for the game. Its 2 guys throwing out their thoughts on specific games and typically there's at least a few solid points that I can take into consideration when placing a bet. Saves me from doing some extra research.

I do like Greg Shaker as well. I've been following him on twitter for a while now and he's been spot on this season in CBB. He doesn't seem like most touts either. Doesn't overly promote his product. He tries to expose common betting mistakes as well.

[LineProjector]

BTB,

Your posts in this thread are golden. Lately I've noticed myself on opposite sides of rocketman's (Rocky Atkinson) lock club. I was concerned the first few times, but found myself winning. Now I laugh every time I see his lock club.

Thanks for the info you provided in this thread. You've confirmed my thoughts on Vegas Runner and Rocketman

[Beyond the Bets]

I don't mind you guys discussing Pregame or touts or any other site for that matter, but please do your best to operate with facts. And if you haven't done the leg work yourself, at least source where you're getting your information from.

What I've posted above, again, has not been verified by me. But I do hear things and I wasn't born at night, so I'm no dummy, either.

[SkyBlues42]

Anybody else notice how combative RJ is in those videos? It's like he's trying to make Marco look like a complete moron.

[JSpauny]

(11-29-2011 09:04 PM)SkyBlues42 Wrote:  Anybody else notice how combative RJ is in those videos? It's like he's trying to make Marco look like a complete moron.

Haha. Yea RJ plays devils advocate pretty hard. Basically everytime Marco has a point RJ just blows it up. One of these times I'm waiting for Marco to start crying.

[SkyBlues42]

(11-29-2011 09:22 PM)JSpauny Wrote:  

(11-29-2011 09:04 PM)SkyBlues42 Wrote:  Anybody else notice how combative RJ is in those videos? It's like he's trying to make Marco look like a complete moron.

Haha. Yea RJ plays devils advocate pretty hard. Basically everytime Marco has a point RJ just blows it up. One of these times I'm waiting for Marco to start crying.

It's funny though. It's like RJ doesn't value the opinion of those he works with. It's a shame he felt that all of the value was on the Giants last night, going against Vegas Runner in that podcast.

[Skating Tripods]

(11-29-2011 09:25 PM)SkyBlues42 Wrote:  It's like RJ doesn't value the opinion of those he works with

It makes sense to play devil's advocate and take the other side. That way one of them always looks like they know what they are doing. If they both agreed and got it wrong, they look like idiots and nobody watches/reads anymore.

Then, they can spin it that, as a group, they're collectively hitting 100%.

[JSpauny]

(11-29-2011 09:25 PM)SkyBlues42 Wrote:  

(11-29-2011 09:22 PM)JSpauny Wrote:  

(11-29-2011 09:04 PM)SkyBlues42 Wrote:  Anybody else notice how combative RJ is in those videos? It's like he's trying to make Marco look like a complete moron.

Haha. Yea RJ plays devils advocate pretty hard. Basically everytime Marco has a point RJ just blows it up. One of these times I'm waiting for Marco to start crying.

It's funny though. It's like RJ doesn't value the opinion of those he works with. It's a shame he felt that all of the value was on the Giants last night, going against Vegas Runner in that podcast.

He doesn't value their opinions for sure. That's why it's why its so damn funny. I thought he was going to be harder on Vegas Runner. He grills Marco worse. But yea, a rare VR victory over RJ.

[Beyond the Bets]

Under normal circumstances, I'd agree with that assessment. But those videos seem to be getting increasingly more "personal," with RJ playing the role of bully while Marco merely tries to speak.

I used to enjoy watching the banter but now it's uncomfortable and awkward.

[Beyond the Bets]

(11-29-2011 09:29 PM)JSpauny Wrote:  He doesn't value their opinions for sure. That's why it's why its so damn funny. I thought he was going to be harder on Vegas Runner. He grills Marco worse. But yea, a rare VR victory over RJ.

VR isn't a consistent long-term winner but is one of the most intelligent guys in the business with legitimate industry sources. He understands betting markets and is good with theory, etc.

In other words, he's not the type of guy that RJ can push around on video. VR can more than hold his own.

[JSpauny]

(11-29-2011 09:33 PM)Beyond the Bets Wrote:  

(11-29-2011 09:29 PM)JSpauny Wrote:  He doesn't value their opinions for sure. That's why it's why its so damn funny. I thought he was going to be harder on Vegas Runner. He grills Marco worse. But yea, a rare VR victory over RJ.

VR isn't a consistent long-term winner but is one of the most intelligent guys in the business with legitimate industry sources. He understands betting markets and is good with theory, etc.

In other words, he's not the type of guy that RJ can push around on video. VR can more than hold his own.

Makes sense to me. VR does do well in terms of betting markets. He's always trying to be on the best side of numbers and usually gets them.

[caseyd]

BTB, You know anything about the Tuesday meeting Vegas Runner refers too? Sounds like an information powerhouse. Any chance of getting some of that skinny here on this forum?

[Beyond the Bets]

(11-29-2011 09:46 PM)caseyd Wrote:  BTB, You know anything about the Tuesday meeting Vegas Runner refers too? Sounds like an information powerhouse. Any chance of getting some of that skinny here on this forum?

It isn't. I assure you.

[caseyd]

That settles that. Thanks