Pregame has made its picks "transparent" (but not really)

[Edward-RAS]

(08-10-2012 05:22 PM)RJ_Bell Wrote:  Well, it was a bitch, but we got it done!

The first problem was simple . . . the grid displaying the picks was having trouble in some browsers - after a change to the HTML of the grid, problem fixed.

The big problem was having multiple databases that each stored a certain time period of picks over the many years we have sold picks. The archive pages that happened to show picks from different database generated an unreliable output. The ultimate solution to this problem was for the added deep archive to display each day's picks on its own page (that way, no one page would need to reference more than one database). It took some work, but this was something I really felt was important.

Pregame.com currently displays every pick from every handicapper ever.

I want to thank the BTB community for being reasonable about the time we needed to overcome the tech challenges of this change. IMO, while biased discussion is useless, honest disagreements have taught me a ton over the years.

I have a number of big plans for even more changes in the next month or so - which I will happily share with you guys as they approach.

Simple question, and maybe I just missed it, but where on the site can I see a lifetime record for each Pregame Pro?

[Beyond the Bets]

Pregame has the capabilities to provide results in the same format that it currently does with "last 100," but instead chose to hide and bury them because, as noted in previous SBR tracking threads, their cappers stink. And they lie.

Providing results in a manner in which reasonable people can't search them isn't transparency. It's the equivalent of a murderer saying, "I'll tell you where the dead body is," and then when pressed for details, he says, "The United States."

[BetThemDogs]

(08-10-2012 09:38 PM)thekbutler Wrote:  In all honesty, just looking at this sample data is enough to realize why he's down ~83 units for the season. Just in this small sample, I see picks with juice of -167, -180, -175, -176, -178, -170. A handicapper would have to have one hell of a winning percentage to make up that kind of juice.

I was going to say the same thing.22 picks show in MLB-- only 2 dogs (and those only +105 & +109) I don't know anybody that consistently makes money in baseball laying huge juice. Or even medium juice for that matter.

[Turnstone Money]

[Beyond the Bets]

By the way: I have to give credit where it's due. This is a funny gag and a clever response to the cries for transparency. It reminds me of the time my dad paid a parking fine - somewhere in the neighborhood of $35 or $40 - in all pennies. He didn't even roll them up. He showed up to city hall with a big 'ol bag and plopped them right down on the counter and began counting them out one by one.

All along, he insisted he did nothing wrong. This was a parking fine he disputed and had no interest in paying. And so, rather than pay his fine, he decided to make a mockery of it.

If memory serves, they threw out the fine.

[BestTrueBets]

This does not help the public without a W L and Units won record or lifetime sortable records by sport. Very misleading.

[Beyond the Bets]

For those interested in the process for viewing the picks, I've included the following video:





As you can see, it's pretty difficult. You must enter the code after every calendar date, but even when you do, the picks don't appear. I went ahead in time (to August) to see if anything changed, and it didn't.

However (and isn't this always how it works?), I've discovered a trick off camera. If you enter the code, then click another tab, and then RETURN to the calendar page ... the picks magically appear. It sounds crazy, but it's true. Try it for yourself.

Another method that works is if you scroll down on your browser, and then scroll back UP. Once again, the picks magically appear.

Here is an example:

[MattStorey]

What a joke by Pregame. They make "every pick available" but make it near impossible for anybody to go through the history to actually compile a record in past seasons for a pro that somebody may want to purchase from in the future.

[RJ_Bell]

Good catch, BTB . . . the archive is very glitchy in Chrome. I've notified tech, and it should be fixed on Monday.

The first 10 date searches in a 24 hour period do not require human verification. After that, it works like any other human verification on the net (in non-Chrome browsers): Video: http://screencast.com/t/EN7tZfFoD3A

[phillygodfather]

In my opinion RJ Bell should thank BTB for helping to build the Pregame brand.. Transparancy is another great selling point for Pregame.. I have always applauded RJ for his complete honesty with me and I applaud him for having every handicappers lifetime record available..

Q/ Can a pro GAMBLERS true record help a recreational gambler turn a profit? Can the average Joe who gambles turn a profit buying picks from Pregame or even a reputable pick selling site like RasPicks if they can't get down at the right number ? Then add in the cost of the Picks and where does that leave the average Joe.. THE SAD REALITY IS THAT ANYONE WILLING TO PURCHASE PLAYS WILL NEVER TURN A PROFIT!!!!!!!!!!

The free content at Pregame is informative and entertaining at times and in my opinion is the only reason to visit Pregame.. RasPicks has been Transparant forever and actually wins but 99.9% of the betting public will not purchase plays from Ras.. I have recieved numerous emails from the average Joe telling me RasPicks prices are too high or that they did purchase plays from Ras but couldnt get the right number and ended up losing money..

In my opinion Full Transparancy is the only way to go but will not change the end result, which is the average Joe will lose money no matter what.. For the people who think the whole Full Transparancy this will negate sales from Pregame, well their a bunch of Idiots too.. The Pregame Brand will continue to grow because of it's entertainment value. People go to Casinos everyday (hoping to win but really knowing they will lose) because they want to be entertained.. RJ is one of the best **el sueño del vendedor** but then again so is Barack Obama and we will probably relelect him to another 4 years..

No matter what any website can do only 1% of the gamblers out there will turn a profit this year, all the gambling websites can do is make you feel like the 1 % once in a while and thats all the average Joe wants anyway..

[phillygodfather]

I tried to edit it but I aint educated Yo!! No matter what any PICK SELLING website can do only 1% of the gamblers out there will turn a profit this year, all the PICK SELLING websites can do is make you feel like the 1 % once in a while and thats all the average Joe wants anyway..

[Edward-RAS]

PGF:

1) Pregame's new "transparency" is anything but that. Making people enter a 7 digit image code to see past results one day at a time with absolutely no tabulation of records is a complete joke.

2) You are right that "Average Joe's" are going to have a hard time winning no matter what. That is why the RAS service is targetted towards sophisticated bettors, people who have necessary bankrolls, time, and resources to justify cost and use of the service. You are wrong that people who buy picks cannot make money, it simply isn't close to being true.

I know of at least a half dozen people who have made over 6 figures following RAS, and here is a public post from SBR mod Justin7 from January 2012:

“My team is up over 100k following RAS CBB this year.”

http://forum.sbrforum.com/nominated-post...-post.html

People have had great success following Dr. Bob in the past, Scott Kellen, and others as well. Obviously it can be done, as you personally witnessed from our Tweet on France -2 last week. I know you said you got -2.5, but many people got -2.0 and some even got -1.5.

[Beyond the Bets]

From a business standpoint, it's hard to blame RJ for not wanting to provide YTD and full searchable records for his handicappers. The fact is, the bulk of Pregame handicappers stink. Many of them struggle to hit the break-even percentage necessary to turn a profit, and the chunk of them who do probably don't turn an overall profit for clients when you factor in the cost of plays.*

*These are all assumptions, NOT facts, based on pick-tracking records compiled by various users at forums like SBR, The Rx, etc. If my assumptions are incorrect, RJ is free to correct me by providing records for all cappers.

The obvious analogy to make is casinos and slot players. In this case, RJ is the casino and the slot players are pick buyers. There's a good chance that SOME - but certainly not ALL - slot players would choose to spend their money elsewhere if a won/loss statement appeared on their screen each time they tried to insert money.

"Wait, I'm a big-time loser at this!?"

Would most continue to play? Of course. They might be playing slots for the fun or the thrill and it's also possible that they chalk up past losses to bad luck. But some wouldn't. And because of that, casinos don't actively tell people, "Hey! Come check out your win/loss statements!"

The win/loss statement is a deterrent to the casino's end game. Likewise, full transparency is a deterrent to pick selling. Some would misinterpret the results ("Is 55% any good?") and others would be scared away entirely ("Man, these guys stink!")

Neither of those benefit Pregame.

[BestTrueBets]

There are so few websites that provide a comprehensive list and provide accurate units.

I really don't want to appear as a typical tout or spammer, but here is what I picture when people say they want honest record keeping...

http://www.besttruebets.net/btbstats/

[phillygodfather]

(08-11-2012 04:16 PM)BestTrueBets Wrote:  There are so few websites that provide a comprehensive list and provide accurate units.

I really don't want to appear as a typical tout or spammer, but here is what I picture when people say they want honest record keeping...

http://www.besttruebets.net/btbstats/

Even with the Full Transparancy thing and since I am a gambling man I would be willing to lay -200 that Pregame grows buy atleast 20% by Jan 1st of 2013..

[BestTrueBets]

(08-11-2012 04:18 PM)phillygodfather Wrote:  

(08-11-2012 04:16 PM)BestTrueBets Wrote:  There are so few websites that provide a comprehensive list and provide accurate units.

I really don't want to appear as a typical tout or spammer, but here is what I picture when people say they want honest record keeping...

http://www.besttruebets.net/btbstats/

Even with the Full Transparancy thing and since I am a gambling man I would be willing to lay -200 that Pregame grows buy atleast 20% by Jan 1st of 2013..

Is it just as simple as the people on these forums that actually research the handicappers represent about 2% of the gambling community and the 98% others just google "college basketball betting" and pregame is the first shown?

[SkyBlues42]

(08-11-2012 04:18 PM)phillygodfather Wrote:  Even with the Full Transparancy thing and since I am a gambling man I would be willing to lay -200 that Pregame grows buy atleast 20% by Jan 1st of 2013..

I know all of the data is there.. but I still wouldn't consider it "full transparency." It's still a process to get the information.

[Betropolitan]

Quote:Is it just as simple as the people on these forums that actually research the handicappers represent about 2% of the gambling community and the 98% others just google "college basketball betting" and pregame is the first shown?

This unfortunately is too true...Googling "CBB betting" is majority % of ppl putting money on games...just the way of the world w/internet, ect...

SkyBlues42...Agree that all betting information is there to be seen, but how we you get plays, when, what format...all the questions of cappers...usually more questions than answers and even when you get answers you do not get ones you prefer...

I cap games myself, I keep records, but so does literally 1 million other ppl...just to diluted...even if YOU are good and do win and do hit games...does not matter this day...

I simply do not believe Pregame is "seriously" trying and that is my opinion...if they were to actually try lots of other steps would need to be taken, which to be honest, would just make them better in long run...they would hurt now because their cappers are not hitting at % that would make them $ currently, but over time complete transparency would take RJB & Pregame to new heights... #justsaying

[Nybble]

Picked a random date, because damn, that is annoying to jumping around to each date. I never saw a "Human Verifier" though.

One example:
- Vegas Runner.

So, we have a $200 at -136 paying out $200. Two heavy favorites that are "Free" (and they go 1-1). And a $300 bet on -113 that loses $339.

I think that even if you got your hands on all the bets, I'm not sure exactly what it might say, because those numbers make no sense at all. I might get bored enough one day to compile a few months worth, but I'm still not sure what it might mean. Also, it's erroring on me now anyway, so I'll have to wait.

[Edward-RAS]

Looks like a red hot 2-0 (100%) National League run.