Pregame has made its picks "transparent" (but not really)

[Beyond the Bets]

Gotta give credit where it's due. Since BTB launched last May, we've been critical of pick-selling sites and their lack of transparency, and have always held Pregame to a higher standard given its place in the industry.

Today, Pregame finally decided to make all of its picks available, and the picks for each handicapper date back to beyond 2010, meaning thousands of picks for many touts are logged, recorded and documented—available for anybody to see.

Did our efforts help push RJ Bell in this direction? Don't know and don't care. The important thing is that the decision was made, and it's about time other prominent tout sites do the same (Yes, Covers, we're talking about you.)

Happy to see that people now have the ABILITY to make better informed decisions. Also, objectively, we can better assess who is (and isn't) the best in the business among the various services.

[Beyond the Bets]

Well, transparency seems to have lasted all of 24 minutes. The lifetime picks have been removed. Hopefully they'll return soon enough.

A guy I know said he logged every pick for multiple cappers prior to them being taken down (he used some sort of fancy XML feed or gadget that is beyond anything I'd be capable of doing). Not sure why, but thought that was interesting.

[JSpauny]

Sucks that they removed it. I'd like to think the efforts here have had some affect on the tout industry. Hopefully they put the records back up and it was some computer glitch and not because sales worsened.

[Beyond the Bets]

Just passing this along. From an email sent to us earlier.

[JSpauny]

Boy, thats just pathetic. Hes still up 30 units. Why lie?

[mount187]

I'm sure as soon as they released "lifetime" records their servers were flooded with people trying to screen-grab that information (just like your friend did). Wouldn't be shocked if it almost brought their site down. I also wouldn't be shocked if stories like yours came out immediately afterwards, and they went, "OH @#$%! Shut it down!"

[RJ_Bell]

LOL.

The table format was improperly formatted in some browsers. It's being fixed now. (Should be a matter of hours).

BTW, BTB, you certainly aided in my decision - specifically helping me understand how people outside of the pick selling industry think about transparency and value. Our ultimate goal is to present our Pros in a way that maxes the number of people who can benefit.

[MattStorey]

(08-02-2012 03:12 PM)RJ_Bell Wrote:  LOL.

The table format was improperly formatted in some browsers. It's being fixed now. (Should be a matter of hours).

BTW, BTB, you certainly aided in my decision - specifically helping me understand how people outside of the pick selling industry think about transparency and value. Our ultimate goal is to present our Pros in a way that maxes the number of people who can benefit.

Wow that is quite ballsy RJ. Somebody posts some very factual evidence that one of your pros is straight up lying and you don't even address it. I am sure you will call it an honest mistake though...

[BetThemDogs]

(08-02-2012 02:38 PM)Beyond the Bets Wrote:  Just passing this along. From an email sent to us earlier.

At 82-51 (assuming laying -1.05) he'd be up 28.45 units--- must have had a ton of money line dogs to almost double that. Or, we're into the ridiculous 4 star, 5 star, 10 star crap.

[MattStorey]

(08-02-2012 03:50 PM)BetThemDogs Wrote:  

(08-02-2012 02:38 PM)Beyond the Bets Wrote:  Just passing this along. From an email sent to us earlier.

At 82-51 (assuming laying -1.05) he'd be up 28.45 units--- must have had a ton of money line dogs to almost double that. Or, we're into the ridiculous 4 star, 5 star, 10 star crap.

Just FYI there is a spreadsheet in the post that shows all the plays and their unit value (1-2-3 unit scale)

[RJ_Bell]

Keep in mind that from day one, every pick ever sold at pregame.com has been archived. Prior to today, the archive “expired” after 100 additional picks. With our transition (which is being completed today), the archive will never expire.

But even with the prior 100 pick limit, every pick has been available to be tracked, logged and scrutinized – and our Pros have always been on notice that 100% accuracy in record keeping (streak promotion) is the Pregame.com standard.

The system I created accounts for the fact that even the most honest human makes occasional mistakes:

Any poster has a right to question any record (either done by email or in a public forum post)
The Pro is responsible to prove his promoted record is correct.
If an error was made, it is publically announced and corrected in our forum.
If a second error is made in a calendar month, the Pro is suspended the rest of the month from selling.

No Pro has ever made two mistakes in one month (there have been approximately a dozen mistakes publically corrected in the last 18 months).

This approach accounts for human error with full transparency.

The fact that our archive is being extended without limit does not change this process. I’ve emailed Spartan about the record question. If he is proven wrong, we will publically announce it.

One added change today:

Some sports (sports other than NFL, CFB, NBA, CBB, MLB, NHL) are not able to be added to our tracking system – and some pick types (like teasers), also are not able to be tracked. Starting now, all picks not tracked in the system will be logged by the Pro in a dedicated forum thread (which will be linked from that Pros homepage) . . . that way, even the picks not in the system will be available for review.

[MattStorey]

(08-02-2012 04:29 PM)RJ_Bell Wrote:  Keep in mind that from day one, every pick ever sold at pregame.com has been archived. Prior to today, the archive “expired” after 100 additional picks. With our transition (which is being completed today), the archive will never expire.

But even with the prior 100 pick limit, every pick has been available to be tracked, logged and scrutinized – and our Pros have always been on notice that 100% accuracy in record keeping (streak promotion) is the Pregame.com standard.

The system I created accounts for the fact that even the most honest human makes occasional mistakes:

Any poster has a right to question any record (either done by email or in a public forum post)
The Pro is responsible to prove his promoted record is correct.
If an error was made, it is publically announced and corrected in our forum.
If a second error is made in a calendar month, the Pro is suspended the rest of the month from selling.

No Pro has ever made two mistakes in one month (there have been approximately a dozen mistakes publically corrected in the last 18 months).

This approach accounts for human error with full transparency.

The fact that our archive is being extended without limit does not change this process. I’ve emailed Spartan about the record question. If he is proven wrong, we will publically announce it.

One added change today:

Some sports (sports other than NFL, CFB, NBA, CBB, MLB, NHL) are not able to be added to our tracking system – and some pick types (like teasers), also are not able to be tracked. Starting now, all picks not tracked in the system will be logged by the Pro in a dedicated forum thread (which will be linked from that Pros homepage) . . . that way, even the picks not in the system will be available for review.

What a great system. So basically a pro who sells for you can make up fake numbers once a month, and get a freebie on it? I thought you had a rule there that any pro caught lying about their record was banned for life the first time?

[SkyBlues42]

Human error is one thing. But when you're only releasing a few plays (if that) a day... then keeping records clean and accurate should never be an issue. It's not hard to update, lets say, four picks a day, while making sure they are accurate. Spend an extra 30 sec on each piece of info placed into the database. Especially if the handicappers themselves are updating their own records.

[ChiefZilla]

I understand the human error part. That's one (ONE!) thing where I'll give RJ and Pregame a pass.

[RJ_Bell]

Spartan reviewed his records and found his mistake.

I’ve publically posted the correction at:
http://pregame.com/pregame-forums/f/9/t/336758.aspx

Spartan also made a personal post:
http://pregame.com/pregame-forums/f/9/t/336757.aspx

Although perfection would be nice, at best Pregame.com can aspire to:
full transparency
provide a platform for public scrutiny (i.e., open right to question records in our forums)
demand accountability from the Pros.

I believe we achieved all 3 in response to this error.

Also, just got off the phone with tech:

The new archive presentation caused more browser problems than first suspected (caused by the sortability features), requiring an overall of the HTML table. They also discovered an “open port” posing a “intrusion risk” (somehow related to the database call, but I’m no tech so I can only pass on the message).

I’ve got a commitment that the fix will be graduated to production by tomorrow (we are shooting for by Noon PT).

In addition to the full history of picks sorted by the Pro who made the pick – we will also be providing a full history of picks sorted by date.

[Beyond the Bets]

Spartan apologizes. Click here.

[Beyond the Bets]

(08-02-2012 06:36 PM)RJ_Bell Wrote:  In addition to the full history of picks sorted by the Pro who made the pick – we will also be providing a full history of picks sorted by date.

How about a YTD record and overall history!?

[MattStorey]

So then would it be fair to say RJ, that if Spartan was to use any other inaccurate records from today forward that it wouldnt be an "honest mistake"?

[RJ_Bell]

Considering the fact that there has been less than one record keeping error identified per month (that's counting ALL Pros!) during the 18 months of this program, it's hard to take seriously the disingenuous "how many errors are too many?" laments - especially from a poster with 5 posts and a clear agenda. I come to BTB because I respect THIS community - not to debate hapless malcontents stalking me for a moment of my attention.

BTB . . . in the next month or so I’ll be announcing even more Pregame.com pick selling changes – all certainly moves in the right direction (and one in particular that will shock the heck out of you)

[Beyond the Bets]

(08-02-2012 08:06 PM)RJ_Bell Wrote:  BTB . . . in the next month or so I’ll be announcing even more Pregame.com pick selling changes – all certainly moves in the right direction (and one in particular that will shock the heck out of you)