Game fixing / point shaving

[Beyond the Bets]

If this is a re-post, you'll have to forgive me. But I wrote something earlier this month about college athletes who admitted to point shaving in various surveys, and also admitted to being approached about game fixing, so on and so forth.

It's my contention that small-scale game fixing (or point shaving) happens all the time. I'm talking, $500 or $1,000 here or there, maybe more. Not enough to get the attention of big-money players in Vegas or anywhere else. Just "favors" — a corner bookie telling a kid he'll pay for his books if he'll make an effort to manipulate the outcome; a local who gets in a kid's head; a kid trying to pay off debt; etc.

So, I'm curious: Do you think it happens? If so, how often?

EDIT: I know of a guy who was approached, but didn't carry it out. Any of you guys know of someone who has partaken in such an act?

[itg_sports]

I have never heard of something like this happening but the whole thing intrigues the hell out of me.

I would think the even more than the corner bookie the perpetrator would probably be a campus bookie. T

These guys are pretty prevalent and one with a good business sense could grow his empire pretty quickly on a college campus.

With more and more customers and contacts would come more of a chance that he would rub shoulders with the athletes. I wouldn't be surprised if the bookie himself would not be approached with a proposition rather than vice- versa.

[Skating Tripods]

I guarantee it's been done. With the cap on wage earnings at like $2400 for student-athletes, and the fact that a good percentage of them come from poorer upbringings, it doesn't shock me at all.

I can especially see it at small schools. Guys at big schools with NFL/NBA prospects wouldn't (I think) jeopardize themselves. But at small schools, with nothing to lose, I wouldn't be shocked if 30-35% of players have been approached and affected a game's outcome.

[Beyond the Bets]

For what it's worth, Sean Patrick Griffin, who wrote Gaming The Game, said he doesn't think any such thing exists outside of the Donaghy scandal. Believes the games are mostly clean.

[SkyBlues42]

Blue Chips leads me to believe otherwise.

I think it occurs. Maybe not on a large scale, but it's definitely out there.

[JayPrimetown]

(12-21-2011 04:49 PM)SkyBlues42 Wrote:  Blue Chips leads me to believe otherwise.

I think it occurs. Maybe not on a large scale, but it's definitely out there.

One of my all time favorite sports movies. Really should have a thread in the off topic forum where everyone posts their favorite sports film. Nice to hear of some obscure ones that might be a good watch.

[RyanB]

I assume we're talking about hoops because that's the one sport where one person CAN make a difference in an outcome...potentially.

In my heart I'd like to think that it doesn't happen. As a realist it absolutely happens. It may not be on a grand scale or for big money either.

Kids, knowingly or not, risked half a season (albeit football) over some goddamned tattoos at Ohio State so I'd think a few thousand dollars in an envelope might have a senior with no NBA prospects and a baby would cause him to alter an outcome.

Personally I think totals would be easier to manipulate and not allow the kids to "sacrifice the integrity of the game". At least if I were trying to buy a kid, that's how I would rationalize it. You're not asking the kid to lose or to win by only a certain amount but to just not hit a certain total.

[ChiefZilla]

(12-21-2011 04:43 PM)Skating Tripods Wrote:  I guarantee it's been done. With the cap on wage earnings at like $2400 for student-athletes, and the fact that a good percentage of them come from poorer upbringings, it doesn't shock me at all.

I can especially see it at small schools. Guys at big schools with NFL/NBA prospects wouldn't (I think) jeopardize themselves. But at small schools, with nothing to lose, I wouldn't be shocked if 30-35% of players have been approached and affected a game's outcome.

I echo this. I would almost think the smaller the school, the more likely it is.

At big schools, you'd have to be completely naive to think those guys aren't getting paid plenty without needing to fix games.

[vegasobie]

the most recent scandal that comes to my mind was at Toledo, and was done by a bookie out of Detroit, I think. The only way it bacame it exposed was Vegas noticed the strange line movement and notified the NCAA. Yet another reason leagalized books are the way of the future.

[ChiefZilla]

This stat seems pretty staggering:

"5.2 percent of all male athletes participated in outcome determinate gambling."

So in a college football game, featuring about 70-80 players on each roster (~150 total), that means seven or eight of them are participating in outcome determinate gambling?

Seems too far-fetched to believe.

[bart41]

I would think the most likely spot for this to happen is either big dogs or big favorites. If you went to one of the tenn-Martin guys Tonight and told him that once they get down big to make sure that it hits 22, no one would possibly notice. They lost by 24. Just saying.

[Beyond the Bets]

If you guys are interested, I bet SPG would be willing to do a live q&a on the site, since he IS a "FOTS" (friend of the site). I might look into doing that.

[JayPrimetown]

(12-22-2011 11:12 AM)Beyond the Bets Wrote:  If you guys are interested, I bet SPG would be willing to do a live q&a on the site, since he IS a "FOTS" (friend of the site). I might look into doing that.

That'd be interesting. Wouldn't mind seeing more industry information posted on the main site... recommended books, movies, shows, etc.

[Beyond the Bets]

Shows? What, in particular.

That Linesmakers show is brutal, IMO. Not really sure what else is out there.

[ChiefZilla]

(12-22-2011 12:20 PM)Beyond the Bets Wrote:  Shows? What, in particular.

That Linesmakers show is brutal, IMO. Not really sure what else is out there.

They play poker sometimes in "Boardwalk Empire." That's gambling. Does that count?

[SkyBlues42]

(12-22-2011 11:25 AM)JayPrimetown Wrote:  

(12-22-2011 11:12 AM)Beyond the Bets Wrote:  If you guys are interested, I bet SPG would be willing to do a live q&a on the site, since he IS a "FOTS" (friend of the site). I might look into doing that.

That'd be interesting. Wouldn't mind seeing more industry information posted on the main site... recommended books, movies, shows, etc.

Are you talking about shows like Las Vegas?

Or maybe specials, like the one they had on Billy Walters. More informational than entertaining.

[ChiefZilla]

This is getting off topic, but did anyone ever see "Owning Mahoney" with Philip Seymour Hoffman?

Sports betting/gambling movie — based on a true story, I think — about a bank manager who has a gambling problem and basically has unlimited access to accounts to fund it. Pretty wild stuff, and well-acted of course, with Hoffman in it.

[Skating Tripods]

I've got the ESPN 30 for 30 Jimmy the Greek special sitting in my DVR. I watched it once before, but I'd like to see it again.

Teddy Covers and a couple others are going to be in a movie called Life on the Line. I guess it's going to show at some film festival next month.





@ChiefZilla: I'm going to have to check out that movie. I'll try and find it at Redbox.

[ChiefZilla]

(12-22-2011 02:37 PM)Skating Tripods Wrote:  @ChiefZilla: I'm going to have to check out that movie. I'll try and find it at Redbox.

You should. Nothing spectacular, but an interesting look inside the mind of a problem gambler and worth a watch. It's a pretty dry movie, but it's just another example of PSH's versatility as an actor.

[Skating Tripods]

(12-22-2011 02:45 PM)ChiefZilla Wrote:  You should. Nothing spectacular, but an interesting look inside the mind of a problem gambler and worth a watch. It's a pretty dry movie, but it's just another example of PSH's versatility as an actor.

There's a handful of free Redbox rental codes online, so I'll get it for free. That way, I won't be pissed if it blows.